The Zim Family Cocker Spaniel Forum

Recently you may have seen a thread from a new forum member by the name of Javun who wanted some advice about breeding his parti colored Cocker.

Javun got a lot of great advice from me and other forum members, but in the end ignored it all and bred his parti color dog to a solid color dog and neither one had passed OFA or CERF tests. I know in my heart that it is all about the money for Javun, and that's quite sad. It's breeders like this that very slowly over time have done damage to the Cocker Spaniel breed.

After quite a few forum members made it clear that he was making a stupid move, he sent me a PM asking to be removed from the forum. I am fulfilling his request with pleasure, and deleting all related posts.

Although I didn't care for the tone of some of his posts, it's sad to me that he wouldn't listen to the advice and knowlege here. Kimera will suffer for it.

Poor puppies.

Thank you Jim.

Thank You Jim.
I know nothing about breeding but I too was under the impression it was a money thing. Hopefully no puppies will result from his stupidity.

.

Thank you Jim
I so appreciate your guidance on this forum.

debbierg

His story just didn't ring true to me. I felt like he was just having a great time egging us on.

The only thing you can do is try to give the best advise you can. But in the end you can not demand that they do what is right.
Just try to educate others to do what is right for the breed.
Norris

Oh it was true. He had a pic of his cocker and the choc cocker on his facebook. I do wish he was a troll, but unfortunately I do not believe he was

Thanks, Jim.

Thank you, Jim. I read all of the posts about Javun and didn't post a reply because I couldn't be civil about it. I don't know that it was about money with him so much as a combination of ego and ignorance. He knows about breeding because his dad is a breeder? That's like saying I could design and sew a dress because I watch "Project Runway" and can sew on my own buttons!

Thank you to all you responsible breeders! I have even more respect for you now that I work with rescue and have listened to you on the Forum. Your care and dedication is to be admired and appreciated!

I think he was acting like an idiot....

However... maybe not today, or tomorow..or next month...was there not a possibility of, at some point in the future, of educating this young man?

I don't know. Maybe not.

Many of us have made wrong decisions, and realized some time / years later that we were very wrong, or could have done things quite differently.

I hope we didn't create another BYB for the next 20 years.

Matt:

I live here in Memphis and am involved in our local cocker rescue. Our director offered lots of advice and education, both on this forum and privately and, to my knowledge, Javun never accepted her offer of help. Maybe some day he'll see the error of his way. We can only hope. More likely is that we'll see some of the puppies or adults with skin or eye problems that people won't want to deal with.

WE didn't create a BYB. He did that himself without us.

We didn't create anything. Nobody here jumped down his throat, although I think a few of us wanted to. People wrote what I thought were educational posts, and responded very level-headedly given the responses we all got from this person.

We can not be blamed for another person's choices (nor can we take credit for them). People are 100% responsible for their own choices. Several of us attempted to educate, and it fell on deaf ears. I wouldn't change what I wrote . . . it's the same piece I give *anybody* that is talking about breeding, regardless of who they are.

Lord, have mercy ! LOL.

I agree with ALL that was said...and would back most of you up 99 % of the time.

Life swings different ways for different people, that's all I mean.

If we all agree 100% of the time - not much back and forth discussion, is there?

The forum would just be FLAT.

Yes...we may have created a BYB for the next 20 years.

I would rather have a BYB for the next 2 or 3 years...than leave babies for rescue for 20.

I may be wrong....just my opinion.

I'm confused...do you think WE may created a BYB? If so, why or how?

This has honestly been eating away at me for days now. I keep asking myself if there was anything else I could have written that would have finally made an impression. Did I need to tell him about specific dogs and their specific issues in the chocolate line that I believe this sire comes from? Should I have shown him the vet records on those dogs or shared the temperament history on the puppy we rehabbed thinking the bite incident was a one-off event but finding out later that it wasn't?

I had a conversation tonight with one of the local kennel club officers who was floored that the son of someone so well respected for so many years in the breeding world wouldn't believe the importance of what we were trying to tell him. And then she did remind me of one thing I forgot to bring up - there's a spay/neuter ordinance in the city of Memphis requiring that almost all dogs be spayed or neutered unless you have a fertile animal permit ($200/year). His dog would not qualify for any exemption except the fertile animal permit, but the ordinance (in the infinite wisdom of our local politicians) can only be enforced as a secondary offense. So as long as he's picking up her poop when he walks her, the ordinance has no teeth.

Under no circumstances would I agree that this forum helped create a BYB. This guy was determined to do that himself regardless of all of our efforts to show him the shortcomings of his thinking.

His own father didn't support him with his breeding plans. If he didn't have enough respect for his own father there is nothing we could have said to dissuade him.

This is just my opinion, but honestly, i am more sad to see this post, than i was to see his.

This thread is blatantly gossiping about a past member on a public forum. I have to say i would be afraid to join in and ask advice, if i were a new member, after reading this thread.

I may not agree with what he did, or the way he handled himself here, but i sure hope that if any of the rest of us messed up, or did something completely stupid we wouldn't be deleted and talked about publicly on the boards.

I hope my post isn't taken as disrespectful or rude, but i really would hope gossip would be taken behind the scenes, instead of out in the open.

Ditto. Jim - can you please put this puppy to bed once and for all?