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 Post subject: Javun
PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 9:00 am 
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Recently you may have seen a thread from a new forum member by the name of Javun who wanted some advice about breeding his parti colored Cocker.

Javun got a lot of great advice from me and other forum members, but in the end ignored it all and bred his parti color dog to a solid color dog and neither one had passed OFA or CERF tests. I know in my heart that it is all about the money for Javun, and that's quite sad. It's breeders like this that very slowly over time have done damage to the Cocker Spaniel breed.

After quite a few forum members made it clear that he was making a stupid move, he sent me a PM asking to be removed from the forum. I am fulfilling his request with pleasure, and deleting all related posts.

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 Post subject: Re: Javun
PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 9:21 am 
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Although I didn't care for the tone of some of his posts, it's sad to me that he wouldn't listen to the advice and knowlege here. Kimera will suffer for it.

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Mom to two great kids, Shawn and Nikki
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Reesie 11-15-2008, Priya, Gottcha day 7-19-2012
The Kitties: Mitzy and "grandma" to Charley
Suki the bitie hamster
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Pudgy the beagle mix----I miss you every day


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 Post subject: Re: Javun
PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:04 am 
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I have read all of Javun's posts but did not reply to any of them. I was too upset to say anything. Why would someone keep saying they have good intentions, then turn around and do something like that??? It is now in the past and I will try to forget about it. Poor Kimora :cry

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 Post subject: Re: Javun
PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:29 am 
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Poor puppies. :cry

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Spirit, my soulmate 5-17-1992 to 1-28-2008
Sky, my tender baby boy 11-16-2007 to 8-26-2008

Star the bright light in my life St. James Bright STAR Angel 7-20-2008


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 Post subject: Re: Javun
PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:58 am 
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Location: Northern Alberta, Canada
Thank you Jim.

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Farley, Grace & Jack Jack
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 Post subject: Re: Javun
PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 12:10 pm 
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:Clap :YAY :Clap :YAY :Clap :YAY Thank You Jim.
I know nothing about breeding but I too was under the impression it was a money thing. Hopefully no puppies will result from his stupidity.

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Kathy



Austin Red/Buff October 21, 2009 -
"Have the courage to say no. Have the courage to face the truth. Do the right thing because it is right. These are the magic keys to living your life with integrity." Mark Twain [color=#8000BF]


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 Post subject: Re: Javun
PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 4:28 pm 
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.

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GCH Norjac Tyrrell's Your So Fine
CH Cocoas N Tyrrell's She's So Fine
CH Cocoas N Tyrrells I'm So Fine
CH Cocoas Thats What Friends R For
CH The Madman's Cometh Almighty Dollar
CH So Fine's Leather & Lace


Last edited by Karen T on Sat Oct 30, 2010 9:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Javun
PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 4:35 pm 
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Thank you, Jim, for granting his request. :hi

There are just some people who think that all things will work out if they just wish hard enough that it will. :roll

Unfortunately, his dog and any possible puppies will suffer because of his attitude. :bang

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 Post subject: Re: Javun
PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 1:42 am 
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Thank you Jim
I so appreciate your guidance on this forum.
:th-up
debbierg


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 Post subject: Re: Javun
PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 6:54 pm 
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His story just didn't ring true to me. I felt like he was just having a great time egging us on.

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Cathie L. in Oklahoma
Babe buff cocker
Beau Black cocker
Both rescued by Okie Dokie Cocker Rescue


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 Post subject: Re: Javun
PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 8:17 pm 
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The only thing you can do is try to give the best advise you can. But in the end you can not demand that they do what is right.
Just try to educate others to do what is right for the breed.
Norris

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NORJAC COCKERS
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 Post subject: Re: Javun
PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 12:47 am 
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Cathie L wrote:
His story just didn't ring true to me. I felt like he was just having a great time egging us on.


Oh it was true. He had a pic of his cocker and the choc cocker on his facebook. I do wish he was a troll, but unfortunately I do not believe he was

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Abby (B&W) 3/25/09
Ava (B&T) 3/25/09


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 Post subject: Re: Javun
PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 8:51 am 
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Thanks, Jim.

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Rosie the Cat

Forever in our hearts: Isabel, Joey and Bear


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 Post subject: Re: Javun
PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 10:57 am 
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Thank you, Jim. I read all of the posts about Javun and didn't post a reply because I couldn't be civil about it. I don't know that it was about money with him so much as a combination of ego and ignorance. He knows about breeding because his dad is a breeder? That's like saying I could design and sew a dress because I watch "Project Runway" and can sew on my own buttons!

Thank you to all you responsible breeders! :nw I have even more respect for you now that I work with rescue and have listened to you on the Forum. Your care and dedication is to be admired and appreciated!

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Foster home to SDSR's "Party on!": Wayne
Foster home to SDSR's "The Bryce is Right": Bryce
Fur-ever home to SDSR's "Princess of Quite A Lot":Mia, waiting at the Bridge


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 Post subject: Re: Javun
PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 10:24 am 
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I think he was acting like an idiot....

However... maybe not today, or tomorow..or next month...was there not a possibility of, at some point in the future, of educating this young man?

I don't know. Maybe not.

Many of us have made wrong decisions, and realized some time / years later that we were very wrong, or could have done things quite differently.

I hope we didn't create another BYB for the next 20 years.


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 Post subject: Re: Javun
PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 10:36 am 
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Matt:

I live here in Memphis and am involved in our local cocker rescue. Our director offered lots of advice and education, both on this forum and privately and, to my knowledge, Javun never accepted her offer of help. Maybe some day he'll see the error of his way. We can only hope. More likely is that we'll see some of the puppies or adults with skin or eye problems that people won't want to deal with. :cry

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Emma - 6/23/10 -
Waylon (non-cocker, terrorist) 2/1/01 -

Shiloh - 4/5/95 - 5/23/11 RIP, sweet girl


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 Post subject: Re: Javun
PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 10:37 am 
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WE didn't create a BYB. He did that himself without us.

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Abby (B&W) 3/25/09
Ava (B&T) 3/25/09


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 Post subject: Re: Javun
PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 3:08 pm 
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Quote:
I hope we didn't create another BYB for the next 20 years.


We didn't create anything. Nobody here jumped down his throat, although I think a few of us wanted to. People wrote what I thought were educational posts, and responded very level-headedly given the responses we all got from this person.

We can not be blamed for another person's choices (nor can we take credit for them). People are 100% responsible for their own choices. Several of us attempted to educate, and it fell on deaf ears. I wouldn't change what I wrote . . . it's the same piece I give *anybody* that is talking about breeding, regardless of who they are.

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Kelly & the KLAD Cockers
Farley, Grace & Jack Jack
http://www.kladphotography.com


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 Post subject: Re: Javun
PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 5:48 pm 
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Lord, have mercy ! LOL.

I agree with ALL that was said...and would back most of you up 99 % of the time.

Life swings different ways for different people, that's all I mean.

If we all agree 100% of the time - not much back and forth discussion, is there?

The forum would just be FLAT.

Yes...we may have created a BYB for the next 20 years.

I would rather have a BYB for the next 2 or 3 years...than leave babies for rescue for 20.

I may be wrong....just my opinion.


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 Post subject: Re: Javun
PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 8:12 pm 
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Matt Georgia wrote:
Lord, have mercy ! LOL.

I agree with ALL that was said...and would back most of you up 99 % of the time.

Life swings different ways for different people, that's all I mean.

If we all agree 100% of the time - not much back and forth discussion, is there?

The forum would just be FLAT.

Yes...we may have created a BYB for the next 20 years.

I would rather have a BYB for the next 2 or 3 years...than leave babies for rescue for 20.

I may be wrong....just my opinion.


I'm confused...do you think WE may created a BYB? If so, why or how?

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Abby (B&W) 3/25/09
Ava (B&T) 3/25/09


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 Post subject: Re: Javun
PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 7:16 pm 
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Location: Memphis, TN
This has honestly been eating away at me for days now. I keep asking myself if there was anything else I could have written that would have finally made an impression. Did I need to tell him about specific dogs and their specific issues in the chocolate line that I believe this sire comes from? Should I have shown him the vet records on those dogs or shared the temperament history on the puppy we rehabbed thinking the bite incident was a one-off event but finding out later that it wasn't?

I had a conversation tonight with one of the local kennel club officers who was floored that the son of someone so well respected for so many years in the breeding world wouldn't believe the importance of what we were trying to tell him. And then she did remind me of one thing I forgot to bring up - there's a spay/neuter ordinance in the city of Memphis requiring that almost all dogs be spayed or neutered unless you have a fertile animal permit ($200/year). His dog would not qualify for any exemption except the fertile animal permit, but the ordinance (in the infinite wisdom of our local politicians) can only be enforced as a secondary offense. So as long as he's picking up her poop when he walks her, the ordinance has no teeth.

Under no circumstances would I agree that this forum helped create a BYB. This guy was determined to do that himself regardless of all of our efforts to show him the shortcomings of his thinking.

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Steph C.
Director, Mid-South Cocker Spaniel Rescue
Memphis, TN
http://www.midsouthcockerrescue.com


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 Post subject: Re: Javun
PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 10:08 pm 
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His own father didn't support him with his breeding plans. If he didn't have enough respect for his own father there is nothing we could have said to dissuade him.

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Maggie, Dylan, Scooby, Sophie and Ziggy
Or as my daughter has renamed them
Daggie, Mylan, old man, Sophers and Zig Zag
(3 rescue cockers, a springer and a wannabe)


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 Post subject: Re: Javun
PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:41 am 
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:tg

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Lexi-Parti - Rescued 8/7/2010 (Honorary Birthday 8/7/2004)
Maliika-Missed everyday - June 24,2002 - March 20, 2010


Last edited by DonnaD on Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:16 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Javun
PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 8:46 am 
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This is just my opinion, but honestly, i am more sad to see this post, than i was to see his.

This thread is blatantly gossiping about a past member on a public forum. I have to say i would be afraid to join in and ask advice, if i were a new member, after reading this thread.

I may not agree with what he did, or the way he handled himself here, but i sure hope that if any of the rest of us messed up, or did something completely stupid we wouldn't be deleted and talked about publicly on the boards.

I hope my post isn't taken as disrespectful or rude, but i really would hope gossip would be taken behind the scenes, instead of out in the open.


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 Post subject: Re: Javun
PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:10 am 
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Ditto. Jim - can you please put this puppy to bed once and for all?


Dani wrote:
This is just my opinion, but honestly, i am more sad to see this post, than i was to see his.

This thread is blatantly gossiping about a past member on a public forum. I have to say i would be afraid to join in and ask advice, if i were a new member, after reading this thread.

I may not agree with what he did, or the way he handled himself here, but i sure hope that if any of the rest of us messed up, or did something completely stupid we wouldn't be deleted and talked about publicly on the boards.

I hope my post isn't taken as disrespectful or rude, but i really would hope gossip would be taken behind the scenes, instead of out in the open.

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Gromit (blk & tan, 5/7/09)
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