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 Post subject: Ear issues... lots of questions
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 4:51 pm 
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Hey everyone! I have a questions... or I guess a few. So sorry if this is scatterbrained...

My bub has had a "severe" ear infections since LAST February. We finally found a vet that I trust, and he is suggesting the ear ablation surgery. Of course, as you know, that will probably leave him deaf. Has anyone gone through this and can tell me all about it? Does the dog seem depressed after? What is it like living with a dog that is deaf? I feel so sad for him that he won't be able to hear me. :cry While reading, I am hearing a TON of mixed thoughts on this, so I want opinions if you have gone through this with your pup.

I am also super concerned that we are expecting our first baby in October, and I worry that she may sneak up on him and he may snip at her. He bit a little boy (18 months) once because he was carrying his water bowl around, so this was a concern anyways, but it REALLY is with the worry of him not being able to hear her come up on him.

When I took him to this vet, his ear had a white puss coming out and his ears were incredibly inflamed. Currently, he is saying that he can't see down into his ear canal is it so swollen. Now that he has been on steroids for three weeks, the inflamation is cleared up. He has been through all the stuff... steroids, antibiotics, etc. With many different vets (we moved). The issue is, once the meds run out, the infection returns. Currently, we are waiting for results of the swabs that we sent off last week, so hopefully there is some positive news there, but I am expecting the worst.

Thoughts!?!?!?

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Laura, Tucker, and Maverick


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 Post subject: Re: Ear issues... lots of questions
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 5:57 pm 
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Hi Laura,

Sorry to hear about the terrible ear issues. You haven't mentioned the cocker's diet; often grain free kibble is not enough to prevent ear infections. There might be other food issues as well. Vets often incorrectly assume that if it's a cocker, it's going to have bad ears, but this is not true. Weekly or more frequent ear cleaning is also recommended.

Please tell us what you feed the cocker and the ingredients in the food.Hope to help...

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Cici - 8 years old (Gotcha Dec 14, 2013)
Raleigh, North Carolina


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 Post subject: Re: Ear issues... lots of questions
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 6:11 pm 
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Oh! I am sorry I left that info out. The vet prescibed a special diet for him. He is currently eating Hills Prescription Diet z/d. I am attaching pics. He has been on this diet for about 3 weeks and the vet said that we won't see any changes for about 2 months. Do you agree?

Thank you for your help! :-)


Attachments:
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Screen Shot 2016-05-17 at 9.10.29 PM.png [ 573.19 KiB | Viewed 2235 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Ear issues... lots of questions
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 6:51 pm 
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I am sorry to say that this is 99% likely to be the source of the problem. My cocker was on a similar diet by the same company at her shelter and she ALWAYS had ear problems. We rescued her and put her on a proper diet and she has not had one ear infection in 2.5 yrs since adopting her.

Kudos to you for trying to save your baby's ears!! I would say no to the ear ablation. The first ingredients in this food are corn, grain, sorghum, rice etc which are just fillers. They are terrible for most dogs, not just cockers. Dogs eat meat, bones, organs, not corn. Trust me, if you change the diet, you will get rid of the ear infections and any other skin issues, itchiness etc. You can save his hearing. You'll save a lot of money on vet bills if you change the diet.

The vets always push Hills foods and if you look at the ingredients you will see how bad they are.

Cocker food MUST be grain free. If you must feed kibble, find a four or five star grain free kibble on dog food advisor.com. I recommend FROMM kibble. For ex: https://frommfamily.com/products/four-s ... ird-recipe

Also, switching up foods and adding some variety is also good. Here is a list of limited ingredient foods i picked and I add to Cici's food. You can mix canned and kibble and they LOVE it.

https://www.zimfamilycockers.com/Forums ... s+#p139036

Tripe is very good. I bought a case of New Zealand lamb tripe. It lasts me a while. Introduce new foods slowly. You can introduce with some boiled rice and canned, pumpkin (not sweetened) and drop the old food immediately. Also good for digestion is nusentia probiotic powder.

What I also do is I buy bulk meat from Costco, like ground turkey and really cheap organs (liver, heart...costs me $5 for a LOT), organic sweet potato, green beans, baby carrots for example and I throw it all in a crock pot. I get coconut oil from costco and I put some in the crock pot. it takes me 5 mins and I freeze it. It lasts me 3-4 weeks.

For bones - beef rib bones from amazon (no cooked bones).

Finally, I use this ear cleaner weekly (less frequently in the winter because she just doesn't need it) . It's GREAT!
http://www.amazon.com/Animals-Ear-Solut ... B000OUY5L6

The ear opening hair also should be kept very short on ths inside flap.

You will notice that your dog's poop will be must smaller. This is because the food is actually absorbed rather than just passing through them (fillers). Even with high quality kibble (first ingredients are meat and no grain), the poop is much bigger.

All the best. If I have missed anything, I will write again, but I am pretty confident your baby's ears can be saved and not be in so much pain!

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Bear Mama to
Cici - 8 years old (Gotcha Dec 14, 2013)
Raleigh, North Carolina


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 Post subject: Re: Ear issues... lots of questions
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 7:08 pm 
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"The vets always push Hills foods and if you look at the ingredients you will see how bad they are."

I had no idea...Why would they push this?

He was eating Purina Pro Plan- Sensitive Skin & Stomach. He has been eating that since he was about one (6 years), and it's what brother eats as well. So he has only been on the Hills diet for 3 weeks. So initially, it wasn't this food causing the infections, but the other food may be just as bad. What is your opinion on his regular food? (I googled and found the ingredients... https://www.proplan.com/dogs/products/f ... ch-formula )

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 Post subject: Re: Ear issues... lots of questions
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 8:20 pm 
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Hey there,

My guess is that they get some sort of financial gain. Every vet's office pushes Hills. How is this possible? Would vets not want to endorse different brands? Does EVERYONE have to subscribe to the same thing? Maybe it suits some dogs. But if you look at a dog or wolf's natural diet, they don't go after any of those things. Those ingredients are cheap for us and kibble is made for people's convenience, first and foremost. Many kibbles are made with meat by products and waste, not actual meat.

Some major culprits in PURINA. Oat meal doesn't suit all dogs. Neither do brewers rice, fat with preservatives, barley.....

There is also the misconception that feeding your dog high quality food is expensive. If you go ready-made raw, it is expensive, yes, and there is a high chance if you do that you will eliminate all problems, but you don't have to.

Chewy.com has great prices on the canned food list and kibble I sent. I mix with kibble and the crock pot. I also give her an egg every so often. Once you get rid of the infection, monitor the ears closely, clean them and change the diet.

If you do buy organs from a butcher, they are cheap and rich..like chicken liver, so give in small quantities.

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Bear Mama to
Cici - 8 years old (Gotcha Dec 14, 2013)
Raleigh, North Carolina


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 Post subject: Re: Ear issues... lots of questions
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 8:28 pm 
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Also, I will say this as an example about the vet. When we adopted Cici, we came home with the Hills food (similar ingredients) she was getting at the shelter. She had terrible ears infections there, we were told and they were frequent. They had her for 3 yrs.She was in pain, so she would not let them groom her and they would put her under for grooming and treatment because they were afraid she would bite.

After adoption, the vet we took her to for her first appointment with us said we should continue with the same food. Incidentally, she was refusing to eat that food. He insisted that they had done a great job and she would eventually eat.

I did research, changed her food and no ear infections. SHE told me the food was crap! :lol2

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Bear Mama to
Cici - 8 years old (Gotcha Dec 14, 2013)
Raleigh, North Carolina


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 Post subject: Re: Ear issues... lots of questions
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2016 4:03 am 
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I'm sorry to hear of your pup having such serious ear problems at this age. My previous dog had serious ear issues also, not only the ears, but stinky skin issues. There were so many things that I didn't know 20 some odd years ago, that I have now learned from.
You don't say why your pup was put on Sensitive Stomach? Was your pup throwing up bile by any chance? My guess on that was either there was something in the food that was bothering him, or the protein was too high, I would take a guess it was probably the later.When I got Snickie, because of everything I went through with my previous dog, I automatically put her on a limited ingredient diet,such as duck and potato, bison and sweet potato, I ran through them all, and found that she was sensitive to lamb and turkey, so I keep those out of her diet. Then I started to experiment with higher protein, and you guessed it, she started with the bile like my previous dog.
For the time being I would recommend that you stay on the ZD, the Zd means that it is a hydrolyzed food, that it is so finely ground that your dogs system does not recognize it as anything and cannot trigger any type of response. At this stage, that is exactly what you need. And yes you do need to be on it for 2 months to see if there is any improvement. If he does improve on it that means that he does have some intolerance issues and then you can work on putting him on limited ingredient diet or have him tested, whichever is more cost effective for you. duck and potato or rabbit and potato usually works for these dogs. But please listen to your vet,and do this experiment for the 2 months, your dogs body needs a rest, these ear infections are very painful. My previous dog lived on the ZD for the last 5 years of her life, she lived to 15, without another ear infection. She had to stay on the ZD due to a leaky gut issue which prevented her from eating anything but that, which that occurs when these intolerances arent taken care of in the begiining, lesson learned, and a very expensive one, and one that I wasn't going to repeat with Snickie. Good luck and keep us posted


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 Post subject: Re: Ear issues... lots of questions
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2016 4:22 am 
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You'll find some really useful information about how to treat Cocker ear infections at http://www.zimfamilycockers.com/EarCleaner.html

I can fairly confidently say that if you read and follow the advice there, you can totally prevent any future ear infections and there would be no need for an ear ablation procedure.

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 Post subject: Re: Ear issues... lots of questions
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2016 6:20 pm 
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He has not thrown up at all, but the vet put him on that food because of the ear issues. He said that his issues could be caused by a food allergy, so he put him on the ZD. I will keep him on it for the two months, and then try some of the other things I am seeing here. I have always had him on the sensitive skin formula because my other cocker had skin issues on anything I tried that wan't sensitive skin... so him being little brother just meant that he ate what I fed them both. Now I am feeding them each different foods because of this one's diet... :bang What a pain!

The only reason I haven't tried the ear solution found on here is because the vet can't tell me whether or not his eardrum is ruptured... I am worried to make things worse! Thoughts on this?

Thank you all for so much guidance... I am starting to lean away from the surgery... at least to try some new things.

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Laura, Tucker, and Maverick


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 Post subject: Re: Ear issues... lots of questions
PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2016 3:15 pm 
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This week the vet said that his ears are looking a little better. His concern is that the cartilage is hardening. This time he mentioned surgically removing some of his ear folds. Apparently it is a lot less invasive and may allow some air to get in and circulate so he can heal.

Thoughts? Has anyone heard of this?

Thanks!

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Laura, Tucker, and Maverick


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 Post subject: Re: Ear issues... lots of questions
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 5:34 pm 
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Don't know if you are still having this problem but wanted to answer your initial question. My dog has had that ear surgery on both of his ears and should be deaf. You would never know it. He can hear my whistle if needed. He is much healthier without the massive infections he had. A dogs white count should be around 10-17K I believe. His was almost 60K. Massive infection. If I had know how much better he would be and how little impact it has had on his life with regarding to hearing I would have done it earlier. Which is what everyone said that I talked to before also. The hesitation was my issue feeling like he would be different. He isn't. He's exactly the same. Just as happy. Just as active. I hope you find an answer that works for you.

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 Post subject: Re: Ear issues... lots of questions
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 10:53 pm 
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Jim Zim wrote:
You'll find some really useful information about how to treat Cocker ear infections at http://www.zimfamilycockers.com/EarCleaner.html

I can fairly confidently say that if you read and follow the advice there, you can totally prevent any future ear infections and there would be no need for an ear ablation procedure.


The best stuff, boric acid needs to be asked at the pharmacy counter. Can be used when you smell an ear problem it will have a aroma. There should be no smell at all, like clean.

You have that very terrible humidity where you live that doesn't help.

Diet diet Cici is correct. Good kibble grain free, if you go frozen raw you will never have a poo problem same with a great can food. Like 4.00 dollars a can. My wife makes a beef sew. He either gets wet kibble soak for an hour. Raw turkey necks that I chop up. lamb loin for the fat or chicken wings all raw, Primal frozen.

Coconut oil in the diet too. Virgin cold press glass jar is the best. Start brushing the teeth tomorrow with a soft human tooth brush.

Now the child with the dog bowl is your fault!!!!! So to say that belong to the dog and no one except you should handle anything that belongs to the pet that is toys too. The dog sees it as someone taking his stuff and will react. The child is the bully in the pets mind.

Dogs need some good omega oils 3's and 6's in their diets. There's no oils in kibble if there is it's been over cooked.

Joe


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