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 Post subject: higher fat or high protein causes softer stool?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 7:45 am 
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I am at the point where Cici is getting a mix of home cooked meat (crock pot) and EVO kibble. I do notice that the EVO kibble tends to give her softer stool. Not loose, just not firm.

In your opinion, is it the the high protein content or higher fat that tends to cause softer stool?

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 Post subject: Re: higher fat or high protein causes softer stool?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 11:04 am 
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I can't offer scientific evidence, but in my limited experience, Oliver's stools soften with more protein.

For example, I tried to switch him to Orijen last year in an attempt to feed him a higher quality kibble. He currently gets Taste of the Wild, which is definitely not the worst of the worst, but I thought I'd try something even a bit better.

I tried to transition really slowly, and we still had major problems. Soft stool AND bloody stool! If you look at the fat percentages in the two foods, they're nearly identical (17% for TOTW and 18% for the Orijen), but there is a 13% jump in protein. Obviously, every dog handles food differently, so my experience is far from the "rule," but I don't think the extra protein agreed with him. (Though he did LOVE the taste!)


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 Post subject: Re: higher fat or high protein causes softer stool?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 12:01 pm 
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If kibble is high in protein it's hard on the organs, raw fat is hard on the organs, to much rich organ meat is hard on the organs. One need to find what's good for your dog.

Remember raw grass feed beef gave my dog the shits, no problem with raw bison, the package doesn't say or break down what is what.

If you want to harden the stools either use more fiber like squash or DE Earth, even raw bone. Nuts will soft stools and very hard on the organs.


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 Post subject: Re: higher fat or high protein causes softer stool?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 1:45 pm 
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Thanks, Adam and Joe. It is indeed experimentation that will help me solve the poop riddle.

I think beef based foods would not work for Cici, too.

I use a tsp of pumpkin in her food and it does help a bit.

What kibble do you feed, Joe? I know you do a lot of raw, but when you do feed kibble, which one is it?

Evo is perhaps too high in protein for her:

Estimated Nutrient Content from dogfood advisor:
Method Protein Fat Carbs
Guaranteed Analysis 42% 22% NA
Dry Matter Basis 47% 24% 21%

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Cici - 8 years old (Gotcha Dec 14, 2013)
Raleigh, North Carolina


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 Post subject: Re: higher fat or high protein causes softer stool?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 3:20 pm 
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You really want to know what kibble we use?

Annamaet grain free lean (large bag), five star by dog food advisor

I got my first bag after the Halloween Fall dog show in Pleasanton and my small dog shop couldn't get this dog food. Why did I pick this food, they have there own manufacturing and don't depend on other processing plants like the larger companies.

Did find it in my county. :joy It's made in Pennsylvania

Ingredient List:

*Improved Formula - Now with Algae!*

Chicken Meal, Field Peas, Chickpeas, Potato, Tapioca, Duck Meal, Herring Meal, Natural Flavor, Chicken Fat (Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols (Vitamin E)), Menhaden Oil (Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols (Vitamin E)), Carrots, Celery, Parsley, Lettuce, Watercress, Spinach, Fat Product (Algae, Source of Fatty Acids), Lecithin, DL Methionine, L-Lysine, Cranberries, Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product Dehydrated, Oligofructose, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Salt, Kelp Meal, Vitamin E Supplement, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), Niacin Supplement, Biotin, Thiamine Mononitrate, L-Carnitine, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid, Choline Chloride, Potassium Chloride, Zinc Proteinate, Betaine Anhydrous, Iron Proteinate, Selenium Yeast, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Calcium Iodate.


Newman Own Advance (large bag) but it's all organic, four star

Fromm Game Bird Recipe 5 pound bag, four star

Fromm Duck & Sweet Potato 5 pound bag, four star

Fromm Reduced Activity and Senior 5 pound bag, four star

Hate to tell you, all are well over the used date this is how much we don't really use kibble. Some are three years over use date.

I mix one cup of each in a large Purina container (8) pound container and mix it up after every 5 cups which is one of each.

Dinner tonight one lamb loin and some frozen venison, turkey, lamb, and salmon with a turkey a neck chopped up.

Turkey, venison, lamb and salmon is mixed together also so what ever comes out. If he wants green beans, snap peas, but he likes asparagus.

We have no problems going to kibble to raw, raw to kibble as he gets some bone either a chicken neck to turkey necks. Should see what DE EARTH does, it really dries it out. With me being gone for a month from mid June to July my wife has used more kibble than the last several years.

Joe


Last edited by Joe in North Bay Ca on Thu Jul 30, 2015 7:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: higher fat or high protein causes softer stool?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 6:32 pm 
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I do something similar with Jennie's kibble. Her main food is Stella and Chewy's freeze dried raw but it is expensive so I give her a half cup of kibble every day as well. Some days she eats it all and some days she doesn't. In order to make transitioning easier in case of a recall, I feed a combination of two kibbles every day. I mix 1/4 cup of Canidae Pure Sea (fish based) and 1/4 cup of Merrick Backcountry Great Plains Red (beef, lamb and rabbit). I put out the kibble in the morning and she 'snacks' on it all day. I'll take a small handful from her bowl on our walk for treats too.

I feed her the Stella's twice a day, 3 patties in the morning and 2 at night. She gets one each of the Chicken, Lamb and Duck/Goose in the morning and 1 Chicken with 1/2 of the other two at night. I break the patties up and she eats them dry but she is a good water drinker and I've not had any issues with them. When I first started, I was adding water to them and then having to clean raw meat out of her ears, so this works better for us.

So she is getting a wide variety of protein sources every day... chicken, lamb, duck, goose, fish, beef and rabbit. I haven't had problems with her stools except when my mom gives her things like bites of pizza crust or grain based dog treats. Grains have been a problem since she was a tiny puppy, causing horrific gas and very soft stools.

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 Post subject: Re: higher fat or high protein causes softer stool?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 11:16 am 
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNSVlSZ5Q38

Would be my first choice in a kibble


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 Post subject: Re: higher fat or high protein causes softer stool?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 11:30 pm 
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Too much of either seems to result in soft stools with 1 of my dogs, boiling the meat and skimming the fat helps so maybe its just the fat. All their food is home cooked so I know whats going in, they get raw chicken wings frequently which never cause any problems.


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 Post subject: Re: higher fat or high protein causes softer stool?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 4:36 am 
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Zoey gets pretty much all raw now. Chicken thighs, and wings and pre made raw. Zoey has always tended toward loose stool and esp when nervous bloody stool. Since she now eats raw she does not get runny poos.(un less she sneaks snacks from the kids) Everything is nice and hard easy to pick up and much less odor. I found dehydrated duck feet (eww they look like feet not like jerky like the package claims) for a chew she loves them! I spent about three years trying to find a food she would eat that didn't leave her with loose poop. EVen when good they were still soft.

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 Post subject: Re: higher fat or high protein causes softer stool?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 5:31 am 
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Thanks, Becky. I never knew about the duck feet. I'll give them a try.

Boy do they look creepy. :shock:

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Cici - 8 years old (Gotcha Dec 14, 2013)
Raleigh, North Carolina


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 Post subject: Re: higher fat or high protein causes softer stool?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 10:30 am 
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beckyboo wrote:
Zoey gets pretty much all raw now. Chicken thighs, and wings and pre made raw. Zoey has always tended toward loose stool and esp when nervous bloody stool. Since she now eats raw she does not get runny poos.(un less she sneaks snacks from the kids) Everything is nice and hard easy to pick up and much less odor. I found dehydrated duck feet (eww they look like feet not like jerky like the package claims) for a chew she loves them! I spent about three years trying to find a food she would eat that didn't leave her with loose poop. EVen when good they were still soft.


Thanks, Becky. The duck feet are a hit!

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Bear Mama to
Cici - 8 years old (Gotcha Dec 14, 2013)
Raleigh, North Carolina


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