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 Post subject: Horner's Syndrome
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 2:31 pm 
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Hi All,

I took Cici to the vet for what looks like Conjunctivitis in her right eye - Just a bit of pink showing - not cherry eye-like bulge.

Well, turns out it is not serious, but it is not Conjunctivitis. It is Horner's Syndrome. It is essentially an inflammation of a nerve that causes the inner lid to show. It resolves itself 95% of the time in 2-4 weeks, we were told. We are asked to use Blink (people's eye drops) just as a precaution for lubrication and cleaning the eye. And we set up a checkup in two weeks.

At times, the doctor said you may see more discharge on the ear in the same side and if that happens and you see other neurological changes - changes in movement and such, then more blood work and checks are done.

Just wanted to share. Looks like Cici's modeling career is on hold.

http://www.vcahospitals.com/main/pet-he ... n-dogs/815

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Cici - 8 years old (Gotcha Dec 14, 2013)
Raleigh, North Carolina


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 Post subject: Re: Horner's Syndrome
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 7:15 pm 
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Yes, several of us have dealt with Horner's syndrome and it usually does resolve within that time period. I'm sure Cici will be modeling again before you know it!

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 Post subject: Re: Horner's Syndrome
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 4:06 am 
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Annie had that as she was recovering from her IMHA crisis. What I did do which seemed to help is take a washcloth and soak it in hot water (not too hot to handle). I'd put it on the side of her face, warm those muscles and massage along the muscles from jaw to ear and back again. She seemed to like it and I think it kept the muscles soft.

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Teddy - 11/11/03
Annie - 2/13/05
Jennie - Gotcha 9/14/11
Cody - 9/2/08
Monkey Cat - 1993 - 2013
Cori - My First - 1/2/91 - 12/15/03
Maxine - My Angel - Gotcha - 9/5/09 - 7/28/11
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 Post subject: Re: Horner's Syndrome
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 4:57 am 
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Thanks very much. I'll keep you all posted.

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Cici - 8 years old (Gotcha Dec 14, 2013)
Raleigh, North Carolina


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 Post subject: Re: Horner's Syndrome
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 11:18 am 
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In your experience, does the eye look worse after a few days before it gets better? The pink overlap on her eyelid is bigger/more pronounced now, although she is not in any discomfort.

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Cici - 8 years old (Gotcha Dec 14, 2013)
Raleigh, North Carolina


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 Post subject: Re: Horner's Syndrome
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 2:28 pm 
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The eye will probably look a little worse because the palsy will cause the facial muscles to relax and pull the skin down away from the eye. Horner's is somewhat equivalent to what we humans would get and call Bell's Palsy. My cocker too 7 weeks to recover and the moment she recovered, the other side of her face got it, which is not unusual, so watch for that possibility too.

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 Post subject: Re: Horner's Syndrome
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 2:30 pm 
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Terry T. wrote:
The eye will probably look a little worse because the palsy will cause the facial muscles to relax and pull the skin down away from the eye. Horner's is somewhat equivalent to what we humans would get and call Bell's Palsy. My cocker too 7 weeks to recover and the moment she recovered, the other side of her face got it, which is not unusual, so watch for that possibility too.


Sigh

Thanks

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Cici - 8 years old (Gotcha Dec 14, 2013)
Raleigh, North Carolina


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 Post subject: Re: Horner's Syndrome
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 8:21 am 
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It's been 3 weeks.

Her eye seems better, although you still see the pink sometimes, so it's not 100% there yet.
Doctor called and said we should definitely come in for an appointment. She did say before that this will heal itself and there was nothing to be done. However, she insists we come in for a visit and her first available date is Monday 6/29.

I am fine with taking Cici in but I do wonder if this visit is necessary. Is this just so we can pay another $70 for her just to tell me we should continue to wait for it to heal on it's own???

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Cici - 8 years old (Gotcha Dec 14, 2013)
Raleigh, North Carolina


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 Post subject: Re: Horner's Syndrome
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 12:20 pm 
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Cici wrote:
It's been 3 weeks.

Her eye seems better, although you still see the pink sometimes, so it's not 100% there yet.
Doctor called and said we should definitely come in for an appointment. She did say before that this will heal itself and there was nothing to be done. However, she insists we come in for a visit and her first available date is Monday 6/29.

I am fine with taking Cici in but I do wonder if this visit is necessary. Is this just so we can pay another $70 for her just to tell me we should continue to wait for it to heal on it's own???


Why not just ask? You can always just say something like "I'm sort of worried. You said there was nothing that could be done and it would clear on its own but now you want to see her. Are you worried there's a problem?". That gives the vet a reason to explain if there's some purpose for the visit.

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Teddy - 11/11/03
Annie - 2/13/05
Jennie - Gotcha 9/14/11
Cody - 9/2/08
Monkey Cat - 1993 - 2013
Cori - My First - 1/2/91 - 12/15/03
Maxine - My Angel - Gotcha - 9/5/09 - 7/28/11
Maddie - Good Boy - Gotcha 6/17/12 - 7/25/13


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 Post subject: Re: Horner's Syndrome
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 12:32 pm 
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I did and all they tell me "We want to make sure it is healing properly", so it's just a check. However, Dr did say there is nothing to be done and it will heal itself.

So, I am not against taking her in, but I canceled the appointment last week. Going for multiple checks for something like this seems excessive and a waste. If there were actual treatment going on, then I would see it differently...

I don't know.

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Cici - 8 years old (Gotcha Dec 14, 2013)
Raleigh, North Carolina


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 Post subject: Re: Horner's Syndrome
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 12:53 pm 
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If I asked my vet and got that answer I'd be puzzled too. My vet did follow up but by phone asking if I noticed anything other than the droop, etc. I don't understand the why but then I'm not a vet.

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Teddy - 11/11/03
Annie - 2/13/05
Jennie - Gotcha 9/14/11
Cody - 9/2/08
Monkey Cat - 1993 - 2013
Cori - My First - 1/2/91 - 12/15/03
Maxine - My Angel - Gotcha - 9/5/09 - 7/28/11
Maddie - Good Boy - Gotcha 6/17/12 - 7/25/13


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 Post subject: Re: Horner's Syndrome
PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 8:18 pm 
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It is now 10 weeks - Cici's eye is 99% normal - only a slight extra inner lid showing. No pink.

I do have a question about health checks and tests - esp when little things like this might be a symptom of something else going on. I will ask the vet, but I value the opinions and experience of forum members. For ex - I don't think the doctor would have mentioned yeast issues to me.

Does it make sense to do a blood test and/or a thyroid test?

What other tests can be done for checking on health besides the fecal one they do? Esp for eye or skin issues? She doesn't have skin issues, but I just want to be more well-informed.

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Bear Mama to
Cici - 8 years old (Gotcha Dec 14, 2013)
Raleigh, North Carolina


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 Post subject: Re: Horner's Syndrome
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 11:07 am 
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I haven't dealt with Horner's, so I can't help with that part. I just wanted to say that I usually have a couple of questions for my vet that make the extra check up of value for me. For example, I always ask them to look in Jennie's ears so I can be sure there is no wax build up or infection starting. (We were in Monday for her first booster vaccines and the vet said her ears are so clean they don't look like they belong to a Cocker Spaniel. :joy)If I've noticed any scooting, I'll ask the vet to do a quick check of her anal gland too.

I usually also have them glance at her teeth so I can get their opinion on when a dental may be needed. Jennie developed an enlarged spleen in response to the anesthesia when she was spayed. It went back to normal size afterward and they've noted her chart to never use that anesthesia again, but I want to keep sedation to a minimum so I won't schedule her for dental cleanings until I absolutely have to.

My vets considers all these as part of the regular exam (the fee for which is $49.00) so I feel like I get my money's worth. :gig

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"If there are no dogs in heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went." Will Rogers


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 Post subject: Re: Horner's Syndrome
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 1:09 pm 
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Thanks, Susan.

My vet keeps pushing the semi-annual Bordatella vaccine, but Cici is never boarded and we don't have other dogs. She is at home with me all day. I work from home right now. i just don't see the need for unnecessary vaccinations as they are not without risk. She had all the others - lymes and what not in January.

Plus after her very tough IVDD issue which took a few months of checkups and recovery and the horner's, I don't want anything else. She needs a break.

I do wonder about asking for a blood test to check on everything going on in there!

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Cici - 8 years old (Gotcha Dec 14, 2013)
Raleigh, North Carolina


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 Post subject: Re: Horner's Syndrome
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 9:07 pm 
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When the vet suggests something that I don't agree with, I usually invite discussion, as in, "you know, I've been wondering, since my dog is never boarded and I do my own grooming so she's not at a grooming shop, and she pretty much just stays home with me all day in our house and yard... I'm thinking we should forego the bordatella vacs? What do you think? are there any other sources of infection that I'm not thinking of?"

I've found that usually they didn't listen to me very carefully the first time through, but when they need to engage thinking to respond to what I said, we can come to a reasonable consensus.

-----
As an aside, I usually remind my vet that I have both a wellness plan and insurance for my dog, so my decisions come from understanding what is best for my dog's health, not what is least expensive.

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Cricket, home 1-29-2012 - 3-29-2017, 5 yrs, 2 mo of Love
Sophie, 10-22-2015, home 9/19/15-
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Maggie Mae: home 9/1/2014 - 3/31/2015, 7 mo of Love
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 Post subject: Re: Horner's Syndrome
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:40 pm 
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I have delt with Horner's. It developed in a dog with thyroid disease. When we put Marley on thyroid meds he developed Horner's. My vet said it was not unusual to see this when trying to balance the thyroid. It resolved in a few weeks. As for testing thyroid level, does your dog exhibit any other symptoms? If you decide to test make sure they do a full test not just TSH. Marley was lethargic and had severe hair loss. There is a thread with pictures. You can search to find it if you want to see the pics.


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 Post subject: Re: Horner's Syndrome
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 8:04 am 
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Thanks Lynette. Cici does not exhibit any other symptoms. The Horner's came on after she recovered from her second IVDD episode which was considerably serious, but managed by medication and plenty of rest. She avoided surgery. Whew. It was in her front leg/neck area somewhere. It drastically affected her mobility and I wonder if something in the nerves ended up affecting her eye.

I just want to avoid unnecessary vaccines - or at least make good judgements about them and was curious if there were any other health tests i should perform just to be on the safe side - as a means of preventing future problems, if there are any lurking. She is a healthy dog, but you never want to find out too late. Illnesses often take a long time to develop.

What I have learned on this forum and with my own research on cockers and dog health in general has led me to adopt many changes in food etc - I do trust her doctors, but I never want to stop questioning anything :)

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Cici - 8 years old (Gotcha Dec 14, 2013)
Raleigh, North Carolina


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